Easiest opponents...

by jeswd Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:16 am

Here is a topic about difficult opponents so I did this. Wink

My usually easiest to beat are:

- Xiaoyu
- Lili
- Chreddy
- Ganryu
- Marduk
- Asuka
- Armor King
- Dragunov
- Lei
- Jack
- Roger Jr.
- Steve
- Yoshimitsu
- King

Between the most difficult and easiest opponents are:

- Feng
- Nina
- Anna
- Hwoarang
- Bryan
- Bruce
- Lee
- Julia
- Jin
- Devil Jin

Yours?

by **Admin** Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:35 am

Easiest opponents:

-Yoshimitsu
-Jin
-King
-Bryan
-Marduk
-Heihachi
-Raven
-Jack-5
-Rogerjr.
-Sergei
-Armor King
-Lili
-Xiaoyu

Between easiest and hardest:

-Devil Jin
-Feng
-Eddy
-Christie
-Mokujin
-Ganryu
-Wang
-Steve
-Julia
-Hwoarang
-Lee
-Kazuya

by JChangDoppelganger Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:38 am

^ Well Mine is about the same as yours Jeswd but King/A King,Roger Jr.,Jack,Sergei,Lei,Feng, are on my Difficult side and Jinpachi is Easy Surprised

by **KM_Lord** Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:44 pm

easiest:

Yoshimitsu
Jack 5
Marduk
Roger
Dragunov
King

and Hardest:

Law
Jin
Bruce
Kuma/Panda
Nina
Anna
Lee

by Muggshotter Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:55 am

We are now not meaning the human players? Computer players basically react to your button pressings and can block every attack you make(I doubt programming hasn't gone that far yet in Tekken though), whether it's a 14 framed low kick or 10 framed left punch. To fool computer players you need to do some shoop-da-whoopah stuff to make them even get off the block. We'll see just how evolved the A.I. is in Tekken 6.

Human players, again, skills varies. If player 1 uses a Bryan that consists of few mid-high attack mixing(and several df+3), that is fairly easy to beat. But if there is a Bryan that consists of well mix-ups, (unpredictable) throws among other stuff. That s*** might be tough to beat. It all depends on a player. They're not computer players that react to your button pressings. They won't react on every low attack you make, unless they have trained their reflexes to do so. It requires weeks, maybe months or even years of work.

And we cant' say about each others' skills because online lag is what it is. Of course if we/they have battled under the same roof....

So to wrap it up, I can't say.

by **Carla Wong** Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm

Raven, both Kings, Lili, Julia, Bruce, Dragunov, Marduk and Paul

by greekman Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:42 am

Muggshotter wrote:We are now not meaning the human players? Computer players basically react to your button pressings and can block every attack you make(I doubt programming hasn't gone that far yet in Tekken though), whether it's a 14 framed low kick or 10 framed left punch. To fool computer players you need to do some shoop-da-whoopah stuff to make them even get off the block. We'll see just how evolved the A.I. is in Tekken 6.

Human players, again, skills varies. If player 1 uses a Bryan that consists of few mid-high attack mixing(and several df+3), that is fairly easy to beat. But if there is a Bryan that consists of well mix-ups, (unpredictable) throws among other stuff. That s*** might be tough to beat. It all depends on a player. They're not computer players that react to your button pressings. They won't react on every low attack you make, unless they have trained their reflexes to do so. It requires weeks, maybe months or even years of work.

And we cant' say about each others' skills because online lag is what it is. Of course if we/they have battled under the same roof....

So to wrap it up, I can't say.

well you are correct, but a well trained human is far better then a CPU, as i once said a human palyer is unpredictable (unless if it is a noob).

by Muggshotter Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:57 am

greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:We are now not meaning the human players? Computer players basically react to your button pressings and can block every attack you make(I doubt programming hasn't gone that far yet in Tekken though), whether it's a 14 framed low kick or 10 framed left punch. To fool computer players you need to do some shoop-da-whoopah stuff to make them even get off the block. We'll see just how evolved the A.I. is in Tekken 6.

Human players, they're not computer players that react to your button pressings. They won't react on every low attack you make, unless they have trained their reflexes to do so. It requires weeks, maybe months or even years of work.

And we cant' say about each others' skills because online lag is what it is. Of course if we/they have battled under the same roof....

So to wrap it up, I can't say.

well you are correct, but a well trained human is far better then a CPU, as i once said a human palyer is unpredictable (unless if it is a noob).

Correct. Like I said(stupidly now quoting myself):

Muggshotter wrote:Human players, skills varies. If player 1 uses a Bryan that consists of few mid-high attack mixing(and several df+3), that is fairly easy to beat. But if there is a Bryan that consists of well mix-ups, (unpredictable) throws among other stuff. That s*** might be tough to beat. It all depends on a player.

Human players are unpredictable, unless we have the brains of cpu player( Laughing

) or if there is repeated tactic against another player.

by greekman Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:05 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:We are now not meaning the human players? Computer players basically react to your button pressings and can block every attack you make(I doubt programming hasn't gone that far yet in Tekken though), whether it's a 14 framed low kick or 10 framed left punch. To fool computer players you need to do some shoop-da-whoopah stuff to make them even get off the block. We'll see just how evolved the A.I. is in Tekken 6.

Human players, they're not computer players that react to your button pressings. They won't react on every low attack you make, unless they have trained their reflexes to do so. It requires weeks, maybe months or even years of work.

And we cant' say about each others' skills because online lag is what it is. Of course if we/they have battled under the same roof....

So to wrap it up, I can't say.

well you are correct, but a well trained human is far better then a CPU, as i once said a human palyer is unpredictable (unless if it is a noob).
Correct. Like I said(stupidly now quoting myself):
Muggshotter wrote:Human players, skills varies. If player 1 uses a Bryan that consists of few mid-high attack mixing(and several df+3), that is fairly easy to beat. But if there is a Bryan that consists of well mix-ups, (unpredictable) throws among other stuff. That s*** might be tough to beat. It all depends on a player.
Human players are unpredictable, unless we have the brains of cpu player( ) or if there is repeated tactic against another player.

thinking like the CPU against REAL players is a dumb thing to do, since the cpu can't improvise or change strategy(because it hasn't one).
Basically i always play having in thought which character am i playing against, wich stage (to calculate more-or-less the distance of the walls if it has) and how he plays (assumed from the 1st round)... against a CPU i think is a lot easier, because once you find a certain weakness, you can easily beat it. But a person learns from it's mistakes... that's why in my opinion the only way to beat an unpredictable opponent is to be even more unpredictable

by Muggshotter Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:16 am

greekman wrote:
thinking like the CPU against REAL players is a dumb thing to do, since the cpu can't improvise or change strategy(because it hasn't one).

Yeah, they can't improvise or change strategy.... But I still manage to lose to them. Neutral

Maybe it's just that I don't feel like spamming all the time a move CPU eats all the time. After all, they just react mostly to your button pressings.

greekman wrote:

against a CPU i think is a lot easier, because once you find a certain weakness, you can easily beat it. But a person learns from it's mistakes... that's why in my opinion the only way to beat an unpredictable opponent is to be even more unpredictable

The only way to beat an unpredictable opponent is to be even more unpredictable? Already playing against a complete stranger is unpredictable. Laughing

They're not aware of your tactics, and vice versa... But you're right.

by greekman Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:26 am

The only way to beat an unpredictable opponent is to be even more unpredictable? Already playing against a complete stranger is unpredictable. They're not aware of your tactics, and vice versa... But you're right.

yes but you don't know his tactics aswell... and you can be unlucky if his main is a character wich you don't know very well, and your opponent knowing your main like the back of his hand
also if you notice there are characters wich your main may be in disadvantage for ex:

As a Hwoarang user i find Steve a pain in the a** since he dodges easily Hwoarang's moves

that's why i check all characters command List

by Muggshotter Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:33 am

greekman wrote:

The only way to beat an unpredictable opponent is to be even more unpredictable? Already playing against a complete stranger is unpredictable. They're not aware of your tactics, and vice versa... But you're right.

yes but you don't know his tactics aswell... and you can be unlucky if his main is a character wich you don't know very well, and your opponent knowing your main like the back of his hand
also if you notice there are characters wich your main may be in disadvantage for ex:

As a Hwoarang user i find Steve a pain in the a** since he dodges easily Hwoarang's moves

that's why i check all characters command List

Well, if I know myself, I have bad luck on this kind of stuff for most of time. hmm

And I don't check every characters' move list not only because I don't have time to memorize all of them, but to keep all that stuff inside my head. I need a bigger memory card. Laughing

by greekman Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:41 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:

The only way to beat an unpredictable opponent is to be even more unpredictable? Already playing against a complete stranger is unpredictable. They're not aware of your tactics, and vice versa... But you're right.

yes but you don't know his tactics aswell... and you can be unlucky if his main is a character wich you don't know very well, and your opponent knowing your main like the back of his hand
also if you notice there are characters wich your main may be in disadvantage for ex:

As a Hwoarang user i find Steve a pain in the a** since he dodges easily Hwoarang's moves

that's why i check all characters command List
Well, if I know myself, I have bad luck on this kind of stuff for most of time.

And I don't check every characters' move list not only because I don't have time to memorize all of them, but to keep all that stuff inside my head. I need a bigger memory card.

can you do the EWGF?

by Muggshotter Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:01 am

greekman wrote:
can you do the EWGF?

Well, it kinda depends. On a SF4 Fight Stick, nah. Not yet, but it occurs sometimes(luck? Laughing

). But on DualShock3 D-Pad, I have a lot better chances for EWGF. As simple as it sounds(forward, *neutra* down-forward+Triangle), I still can't get EWGF done sometimes.

by greekman Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:57 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
can you do the EWGF?
Well, it kinda depends. On a SF4 Fight Stick, nah. Not yet, but it occurs sometimes(luck? ). But on DualShock3 D-Pad, I have a lot better chances for EWGF. As simple as it sounds(forward, *neutra* down-forward+Triangle), I still can't get EWGF done sometimes.

then practice hard to learn the JFSR because it-s harder xD
if you know that move, you will kickass with hwoarang

by Muggshotter Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:23 pm

greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
can you do the EWGF?
Well, it kinda depends. On a SF4 Fight Stick, nah. Not yet, but it occurs sometimes(luck? ). But on DualShock3 D-Pad, I have a lot better chances for EWGF. As simple as it sounds(forward, *neutra* down-forward+Triangle), I still can't get EWGF done sometimes.

then practice hard to learn the JFSR because it-s harder xD
if you know that move, you will kickass with hwoarang

Ugh... Just Frames... doh

As if EWGF wasn't enough.
I'll just first do my research before trying it. Battling

Wait a second... what EWGF and JFSR have to do with easiest opponents? Laughing

by greekman Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:20 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
can you do the EWGF?
Well, it kinda depends. On a SF4 Fight Stick, nah. Not yet, but it occurs sometimes(luck? ). But on DualShock3 D-Pad, I have a lot better chances for EWGF. As simple as it sounds(forward, *neutra* down-forward+Triangle), I still can't get EWGF done sometimes.

then practice hard to learn the JFSR because it-s harder xD
if you know that move, you will kickass with hwoarang
Ugh... Just Frames... As if EWGF wasn't enough.
I'll just first do my research before trying it.

Wait a second... what EWGF and JFSR have to do with easiest opponents?

well... guess i went a bit off topic...

by Muggshotter Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:16 am

greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
can you do the EWGF?
Well, it kinda depends. On a SF4 Fight Stick, nah. Not yet, but it occurs sometimes(luck? ). But on DualShock3 D-Pad, I have a lot better chances for EWGF. As simple as it sounds(forward, *neutra* down-forward+Triangle), I still can't get EWGF done sometimes.

then practice hard to learn the JFSR because it-s harder xD
if you know that move, you will kickass with hwoarang
Ugh... Just Frames... As if EWGF wasn't enough.
I'll just first do my research before trying it.

Wait a second... what EWGF and JFSR have to do with easiest opponents?

well... guess i went a bit off topic...

Hmm... maybe... Idea

I guess being able to make an EWGF plays a part in being an upredictable player

Comes out fast and can shake off the opponent's head, which leads us to

Mindgames.

by greekman Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:27 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
can you do the EWGF?
Well, it kinda depends. On a SF4 Fight Stick, nah. Not yet, but it occurs sometimes(luck? ). But on DualShock3 D-Pad, I have a lot better chances for EWGF. As simple as it sounds(forward, *neutra* down-forward+Triangle), I still can't get EWGF done sometimes.

then practice hard to learn the JFSR because it-s harder xD
if you know that move, you will kickass with hwoarang
Ugh... Just Frames... As if EWGF wasn't enough.
I'll just first do my research before trying it.

Wait a second... what EWGF and JFSR have to do with easiest opponents?

well... guess i went a bit off topic...
Hmm... maybe... I guess being able to make an EWGF plays a part in being an upredictable player Comes out fast and can shake off the opponent's head, which leads us to Mindgames.

mindgames... Very Happy

i love when my opponent is close to a wall... and he gets that claustrophobia feeling while i'm pounding him, if they didn't already feared the wall, they will fear it from they day they faced me Laughing

and i agree^, mindgames is a big weapon

by Muggshotter Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:37 am

greekman wrote:

i love when my opponent is close to a wall... and he gets that claustrophobia feeling while i'm pounding him...

When playing in a walled stage, whether against a computer player or a player of any skill level, I always try to not find myself from being back on the wall. When logically thinking I'll end up getting walled in seconds, I just sidestep/walk for bigger area and less chances for getting wall*****. Like 180 degrees or so. This is where I usually ask myself: "Where the hell the Position Change from Tekken 4 left?"

greekman wrote:
if they didn't already feared the wall, they will fear it from they day they faced me

Looks like I don't fear the walls.... much... yet. If it's true what you said, I need to face you in order to be afraid of walls. Laughing

greekman wrote:
mindgames...

and i agree^, mindgames is a big weapon

From what I've read on Tekken Zaibatsu Forums, Tekken on high level play is all about mindgames

Making your opponent go shoop-da-whoop to get a launcher in and bust up a 66 point juggle. I suck at mindgames, personally.

by greekman Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:47 am

"I always try to not find myself from being back on the wall"

duh.. but when i'm with Hwoarang i let myself being back on the wall, my opponent feels confinent that he's going to wall**** me but then... he leavs an opening, and i leave him in mid air, do a little juggle that ends with "overhead kick" since i was with my back faced to the wall, the moment i do the overhead kick i send my opponent flying against the wall... Twisted Evil

each character has it's tactics

by Muggshotter Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:55 am

greekman wrote:"I always try to not find myself from being back on the wall"

duh.. but when i'm with Hwoarang i let myself being back on the wall, my opponent feels confinent that he's going to wall**** me but then... he leavs an opening, and i leave him in mid air, do a little juggle that ends with "overhead kick" since i was with my back faced to the wall, the moment i do the overhead kick i send my opponent flying against the wall...

each character has it's tactics

Hmm, I see. You certainly have a mindgame strategy right there....? Idea

I want to play more safe and not risk my half my health bar because I didn't sidewalk away from walls. But you're right, every character have their tactics.

by greekman Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:02 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:"I always try to not find myself from being back on the wall"

duh.. but when i'm with Hwoarang i let myself being back on the wall, my opponent feels confinent that he's going to wall**** me but then... he leavs an opening, and i leave him in mid air, do a little juggle that ends with "overhead kick" since i was with my back faced to the wall, the moment i do the overhead kick i send my opponent flying against the wall...

each character has it's tactics
Hmm, I see. You certainly have a mindgame strategy right there....?

I want to play more safe and not risk my half my health bar because I didn't sidewalk away from walls. But you're right, every character have their tactics.

no that wasn't a mindgame strategy, it was a pounding strategy Laughing

mindgame strategy i often use launchers and wall combos but that is because i'm an offensive player, and i often get the 1st hit (i think it is important)

i like the fact that Jin is very balanced fighters in terms of kicks and punches, and he is good for defending

by Muggshotter Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:15 am

greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:"I always try to not find myself from being back on the wall"

duh.. but when i'm with Hwoarang i let myself being back on the wall, my opponent feels confinent that he's going to wall**** me but then... he leavs an opening, and i leave him in mid air, do a little juggle that ends with "overhead kick" since i was with my back faced to the wall, the moment i do the overhead kick i send my opponent flying against the wall...

each character has it's tactics
Hmm, I see. You certainly have a mindgame strategy right there....?

I want to play more safe and not risk my half my health bar because I didn't sidewalk away from walls. But you're right, every character have their tactics.

no that wasn't a mindgame strategy, it was a pounding strategy

greekman wrote:mindgame strategy i often use launchers and wall combos but that is because i'm an offensive player, and i often get the 1st hit (i think it is important)

You think the first hit is important? Hmm... Yeah. I don't know why it feels so important. Maybe it's because you get the upper hand from connecting the first hit. Smile

greekman wrote:
i like the fact that Jin is very balanced fighters in terms of kicks and punches, and he is good for defending

Yes, Jin is pretty much neutral character in Tekken 5/DR with no significant strenghts or weaknesses. His defence is his offence, mark my(and pro Jin players') words. That's why he probably doesn't have any stances at all(except for Power Stance, b+1+2). He has mostly solid one-hits, including the legendary ff+2 and l33t f+4(it hits pretty much everything Laughing

). He is also the only character who can Super-charge out of (some of his) moves, but it leaves him wide open and while Super-charge state it is not possible to block. pale

Jin's Parry can be also one tricky method to score hits. Since I suck at simulatenous pressings, I need to buffer either 2 or 4 button so I can really get the Parry done, but this requires prediction, which sucks water out of lake. If I try to do Jin's Parry(or any (basic) throw for that matter) from scratch, I tend to fail, which screws me up. But sometimes mistakes become your advantage - I ment to do 2+4 throw but I did the 4-button kick instead, which connected. Shocked

by greekman Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:15 am

Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:
Muggshotter wrote:
greekman wrote:"I always try to not find myself from being back on the wall"

duh.. but when i'm with Hwoarang i let myself being back on the wall, my opponent feels confinent that he's going to wall**** me but then... he leavs an opening, and i leave him in mid air, do a little juggle that ends with "overhead kick" since i was with my back faced to the wall, the moment i do the overhead kick i send my opponent flying against the wall...

each character has it's tactics
Hmm, I see. You certainly have a mindgame strategy right there....?

I want to play more safe and not risk my half my health bar because I didn't sidewalk away from walls. But you're right, every character have their tactics.

no that wasn't a mindgame strategy, it was a pounding strategy

greekman wrote:mindgame strategy i often use launchers and wall combos but that is because i'm an offensive player, and i often get the 1st hit (i think it is important)
You think the first hit is important? Hmm... Yeah. I don't know why it feels so important. Maybe it's because you get the upper hand from connecting the first hit.

greekman wrote:
i like the fact that Jin is very balanced fighters in terms of kicks and punches, and he is good for defending
I ment to do 2+4 throw but I did the 4-button kick instead, which connected.

that's what i call luck Laughing

Still i like more Kazuya's style then Jin's, althoug he isn't a defender at all... i also like Heihachi, but heihachi for a Mishima user needs a bit more skill, it's a bit like Hwoarang users who want to main Baek... Baek is harder then Hwoarang, but it has very good moves wich are really hard to defend (right jewsd??)
Surprised

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